Talk:Main Page/Archive 36

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Archive 30 Archive 34 Archive 35 Archive 36 Archive 37 Archive 38 Archive 40

Do you want a PR boost?

Get a featured article on Main Page! You will also make the world a better place, by donating some useful copyrighted pictures to the community. ;-)

  • Huh? April 1 was nearly month ago... Mgm|(talk) 12:42, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Kylie Minogue is no David Bowie

"Minogue has established one of the longest and most successful careers as a performer in contemporary pop music"

What, is this a joke? From the late Eighties until now? That's one of the longest and most successful careers in contemporary pop music? Come on now, not for the main page.

she is good, but not for the main page! - Mazidi-Man

Karl Ward 15:1 5, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • I agree, it contradicts the rest of the text in the "blurb". I've removed it. Mgm|(talk) 17:33, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

South Africa - FA

Why does the text from today's FA on the Main Page not mention Lesoto as one of the countries which has borders with South Africa? Does someone not like Lesoto?

--Eleassar777 09:46, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Since Lesotho is an enclave, I think it's probably been overlooked. I don't know about the stats page. Mgm|(talk) 10:03, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Another question: why does the special page "statistics" not have its talk page?

--Eleassar777 09:46, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It is so for every special page. It may be because they're autogenerated and not edited by us. -- Sundar (talk · contribs) 10:20, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Whom should I address as to this topic? --Eleassar777 14:16, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, erm, as far as the featured article blurbs on the main page, I write those. →Raul654 19:36, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

I meant the talk page of special:statistics. --Eleassar777 20:11, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Special pages do not have talk pages - none of them do. Mediawiki doesn't allow for it. If you think it should be otherwise, file a report on wikipedia's bugzilla, but don't hold your breath. →Raul654 20:15, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Why isn't suitemate a word?

Simple question as many people in college and elsewhere have roommates, we now live in suites so why is suitemate not a word?

1-Guess you could say that it is a word.
-:)Selah 02:55, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Flatmate is a commonly used word in Commonwealth English for people who share a flat/apartment.-gadfium 03:08, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It is a word, though less common than roommate or flatmate. Why not just add it? -- Dpark 20:55, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Rep of South Africa

RSA is NOT "among the most stable..." in Africa, it is The Most Stable!

I can't resist answering this, but what about Botswana? :P -- Joolz 22:09, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
That's why only a fool speaks in absolutes - because crow isn't a very tasty meal. →Raul654 02:57, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

Ivory-billed woodpecker

Isn't the lead item of In the news a little bit overblown? Finding a creature thought to be extinct since 1944 is important, and worthy of being in this section, but it's not as important as finding one thought to have been extinct for 65 million years. I think the comparison to the Coelacanth should be dropped.-gadfium 03:20, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yeah when I read the coelecanth comparison I was like "that's OTT". --Madchester 04:28, 2005 Apr 29 (UTC)
I was about to make exactly the same point. A difference in timescale (and importance) of approximately 1 million. Ben Finn 10:56, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

RSA Most Stable

If Johburg is considered stable then why was I carjacked?

People get carjacked everywhere. Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 02:02, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Whoever said Jo'burg is stable may be meant economically and that would be compared with other African towns and not in terms of security...Even the most stable countries have carjackers so don't be surprised!

Norway doesn't have carjackers. Jørgen 19:21, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Ivory-billed woodpecker

"Compared to" should be "compared with".

So Shakespeare really meant to write "Shall I compare thee with a summers day"? Both forms are equally acceptable. Filiocht | Blarneyman 09:13, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

Regarding someone so many hundred years dead as an authority on the modern English language probably isn't so clever. The OED prefers "with".

The OED is not a grammar reference. Fowler, for example, gives both. Our own Wikipedia:Manual of style has nothing to say on the matter. Check this out for a good discussion. Filiocht | Blarneyman 12:41, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

Also, you really can't compare the rediscovery of a woodpecker thought to have become extinct in 1954 to the rediscovery of the coleacanth, a species that had been presumed to have died out during the Cretaceous period, 65 million years ago. Proto 13:28, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Too many links and confustion

I have been trying to figure out how make good of this website, but i have not been able to find out how. There is so much content and so many links, that it is impossible to understand how to go about and write new articles or how to edit present pages.


The introduction on the Main Page has a link to this Wikipedia:Introduction --Clawed 04:26, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If u don't know....just go to sleep..

Good Work

I juist wanted to inform the Wikipedia managers and the Wiki Team that they are doing a fantastic job on this web resource and I think that this creation has exceeded the previous greatness and popularity of the Britannica Encyclopedia. Well Done! Shariq Khan, Pakistan.

On behalf of everyone here: Thanks, man! Gkhan 02:58, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)

Message Board for each topic/person

Would really draw people to the site, not every topic/person/celeb has their own message board-- Wiki should be the go-to site.

It would be a magnet for spammers and vandals and the like. It's hard enough to maintain as it is. This is an encyclopedia, not a discussion forum (see point 2). Go to Usenet if you want to discuss something. (I do apologise if I sound rude, trust me in that that is really not my intention) Gkhan 02:16, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)

Mozilla Composer Compatibility

I know of a little program known as Mozilla Composer. This is a VERY useful program for making web pages. I don't know how to get it alone, but it would be VERY useful if it was in Wikipedia, for things such as tables. If it was the editor used in Wikipedia, it could really help. Although it is included in Mozilla Suite, Wikipedia might be able to get it as their editor, directly from the people who make Mozilla, on special order.


  • I don't really think that that's really a good idea. Wikipedia is generally against too fancy design and too complicated html. Also it's best to use the styles form the wikipedia style sheets. I think that the current simlpicity is simpler and cleaner. Sure it might be confusing for those who don't know html but I think that html is easy to learn. Jeltz talk 18:50, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Also, Composer is a stand-alone program and can't be embedded into a web page or otherwise integrated with Wikipedia without a lot of effort. Though if someone can think of a Java HTML editor that can work as an applet... now that would be an idea. Nickptar 18:57, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • Still we would have the problem with that making editing easier might risk overuse of html formatting, even if it would be neat (I wouldn't use it my self but I never use such editors). Jeltz talk 19:05, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hitchiker's guide and wikipedia

We have, just have to have the next front page article in English be about the Hitchiker's guide to the Galaxy. While Wikipedia is completely different from the guide...come what I am talking about!!! This is closeset thing to a guide!!! I would carry Wikipedia with me whereever I went updating articles while I hitchiked the galaxy!!!!

I have always thought of Wikipedia as a bit of a Guide, because of the antagonism with the more staid (& less informative) Encyclopedia Galactica, but I did look again and saw this quote "The Hitch Hiker's Guide ... has been compiled and recompiled many times over many years and under many different editorships. It contains contributions from countless numbers of travellers and researchers." Who would have thought how prescient the concept was? Still, best not to push the analogy too far - I wouldn't like to alienate those who can't stand the Hitch Hiker books/series/film RMoloney 01:10, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

While I'm sympathetic to this idea, there is a more or less official attempt to create an online Guide: h2g2. It's not nearly as comprehensive or as useful as Wikipedia, but it has a quirky charm all its own. Shmuel 03:00, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]
I gotta go with RMoloney on this. S/he(?) wasn't suggesting renaming Wikipedia to h2g2, nor changing Wikipedia's mission to sync with the Guide, Shmuel. S/he was just suggesting that a front page article be devoted to h2g2. With the movie just now coming out, I think think that would be a not only a cool, but also perhaps a froody idea. BTW, the movie's fuckin great, and, should there be ir is a Wikicities h2g2 project? -Ozzyslovechild 03:33, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[]

I'm a fan of the Hitchhiker books although I haven't seen the movie yet. A front page article is a good idea, but articles on the main page are drawn from the pool of featured articles. Are there any Hitchhiker-related articles which have achieved featured status? If not, helping one attain it would be your first step. — Knowledge Seeker 05:00, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[]

It's funny that this should come up... I was reading the book the other day and this passage immediately stood out: "The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a very unevenly edited book and contains many passages that simply seemed to its editors like a good idea at the time." Ah, I love it really. :P --Sum0 11:16, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[]

The best search engine.

Wikipedia has helped me through high school and now through college. it has indeed become my favorite and most used website... containing information on almost every topic in existence. its the website for peope who are interested in gaining more unlimited knowledge

Thank you for your thoughts. We who use it, read it and write it, know that it is an encyclopedia that is alive; hence your use of the word unlimited is more a statement about us: you, me, us: we are the encyclopedia.
Wikipedia can be a useful resource, but I seriously doubt it could help with college courses. It more just a bit of fun isn't it? --Commander Keane 12:21, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]
No, while I wouldn't use it in university, Wikipedia's great for college courses. Gender roles was the main source for an hour-long Humanities presentation I did recently at Humber College. Little did I known until after the presentation that it was even a featured article. The professor was even intrigued by the concept of Wikipedia, and asked for its name and URL on the last day. -- user:zanimum
A professor of mine used the article on the EU constitution as reading for class. Meelar (talk) 20:59, May 1, 2005 (UTC)
It's an inspiring muse for that thirty-page paper due the next day. Of course, it's also a deadly, time-consuming trap. =] 17:46, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[]
Perhaps we are all currently reading FoxTrot. I think that Wikipedia has made the big time comix. Ancheta Wis 15:58, 7 May 2005 (UTC)[]


I've been going to this site for a while now, it's pretty cool. I don't know why but I keep getting this "you have new messages" thing at the top of pages, and when I click them, they say I've been vandalizing. So uh...I'm kind of confused. Sorry if this post doesn't belong here and stuff (I'm a noob) .

It would appear that you're sharing an IP Address with someone is spamming. There's not much you can do, BUT, you can get a Username! Then the messages for your IP go away. :) Ambush Commander 23:37, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)
It might also be the old bug that gives anonymous users messages corresponding to a different (wrong) IP address. (If that bug hasn't been fixed yet. I think it was probably related to caching.) DBrane 12:36, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Historic significance of Swastika

In today's main article on Swastika, it says:

"...the swastika was claimed by the German Nazi Party, and in much of the world it has since had a strong association with racist fascism and the Holocaust. ..."

You should define what you mean by "much of the world". Is it much of the "Western world"? I suspect it is. And if populations in India, China and other parts of Asia are considered, I suspect your statement would be different.

Why should corruption of an ancient symbol by the West and in the West somehow cast doubt on the earnest intent of those using this ancient symbol in the East?

Even accepting your argument, you wouldn't consider much of the Western world to still be much of the world? - Stoph 05:00, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]
Guess it's a question of the meaning of "much" which I would suggest does not include presumptions of majoritarianism. --Utahredrock 05:05, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]

I'm pretty sure that if you wear an armpatch with a swastika in India, they're gonna react pretty much the same way as they would in the western world (although, I'm not Indian and I couldn't say for sure) Gkhan 15:01, May 1, 2005 (UTC)

This is not correct. The swastika is a sacred symbol, as always, and is commonly found in many places such as cars and household objects. That a group of people in a different hemisphere used the symbol in an unrelated sense for a few years has not changed its use in much of the world. — Knowledge Seeker 18:49, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]
but the armband will give you away: people in India don't walk around with historically correct NSDAP badges, their swastikas appear in very different contexts. So the actual Nazi black-white-red swastika will be recognized for what it is even in India. dab () 18:52, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]
You are probably correct. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the point of Gkhan's statement was the use of the swastika in general and not specifically wearing it on armband as such. — Knowledge Seeker 19:18, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]
In most Asian countries, it all depends on the context. I have not been to India. But here in Taiwan, it you wear a swastika without any obvious hint of Nazism, people see you as a peaceful buddhist. If you decorate your building with swastikas (usually on the walls, similar to Image:Amiens-pavement-swastika.jpg), you would be seen as a religious person.
In contrast, if I wear a buddhist's swastika in N.Y. or L.A., even as an oriental, chances are I would be harrassed or attacked. I am a Christian so I probably will not wear it anyway. I think I'd better not to challenge those bigots and racists in the western world. -- Toytoy 06:10, May 2, 2005 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that putting the Swastika is going to stir controversy and generate poor views of wikipedia by the public. Trying to revive an "ancient" symbol that was used for severe hatred and what currently represents something highly negative - it boggles the mind why to approach it and cause pain.
hello? nobody (here) is trying to "revive" anything. Certainly the "Western World" qualifies as "much of" the world? "much" isn't equivalent to "most". But in "much" of the world (the Hindu part), the symbol was never "de-vived", and I don't see how just portraying the various meanings of the symbol is going to discredit Wikipedia. We're just reporting the facts, and I do think the article is quite fair (it was even extensively quoted by the BBC, check the talk archives). I do think a more "eastern"/colourful version might have been picked to grace the Main page, though. dab () 18:08, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]
The new image is much nicer in that regard, I think. - Stoph 20:56, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Why has the nazi swastika replaced the traditional hinhu one as the one for todays featured article??--Clawed 22:05, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]

I ask the same question. The article should have a standard swastika, not the modified NAZI one. --Zippanova 22:07, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
I agree. I am biased and so hesitated to change it, but based off the comments here I restored the older image. — Knowledge Seeker 22:08, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]

On what do you all base this? Wikipedia's content follows what is notable today among English speakers. The Nazi swastika is obviously the most notable example today among English speakers. It seems odd that the most famous example is ignored. If someone says the word "swastika", the vast majority of people immediately think "Nazi", not "Hindu symbol". Unless you can provide an actual reason for it not to be on the Main Page (for this last hour and a half), I'm going to revert. --brian0918™ 22:12, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Kid, did you know there are some English speaker living in India? Last time I checked, India has more than 700 million peace-loving and non-Nazi citizens. I guess more than a few of these people are speaking English right now. Learn to respect these English users. -- Toytoy 06:27, May 2, 2005 (UTC)
If you're asking me what I based it on, I interpreted four comments here as favoring the the Hindu version. I agree that Wikipedia's content follows what is notable today among English speakers; however, I see that as part of systemic bias and not a state to be desired (this is not in reference to naming conventions). I don't object to the Nazi image being shown; in fact, ideally, I think both would be featured, to highlight the varied uses of this symbol. However, I realize that that may be aesthetically unpleasing, and I also realize that I am biased in this matter. I disagree with removing the Hindu symbol; however, I (of course) will not re-revert, so you may act as you see fit. — Knowledge Seeker 22:30, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]
I must say, I fully agree with Raul (expressed on IRC) and Knowledge Seeker. The original form of the symbol is much the better to use on the Main Page.
James F. (talk) 22:41, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[]
I really don't know how swastikas are currently used throughout Asia, but as a Chinese Christian with many buddhist friends, I don't think they are using the squiggly ancient swastika (Image:Hindu swastika.png). I haven't seen any of it anywhere. Most Chinese swastikas are like this Korean Image:Buddhistswastika.jpg (straight lines and right angles). It is not a good idea to change the image just because some people are less tolerant to others. -- Toytoy 06:20, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

My guess is that if one were able to count the number of symbols of swastika used throughout the world prior to world war II, during World War II, or since World War II, one would find that the ancient uncorrupted symbol would come out as the most widely "used". By used, I mean individuals physically writing/painting it in their daily lives.

The problem I found with the article is that it gives overwhelming importance to the corrupt use of the symbol, while actual usage of the symbol is unrelated to the Nazi usage.

"English Only" speakers may be less aware of the usage of the good swastik symbol. There are quite a few "English" speakers who use the "good" swastik symbol.

  • Thinking of India? Jeltz talk 21:36, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[]

first of all the swatika has distinctly indian origins,we indians use it as a sign in diwali a festival,it stands for many things but roughly it means mark of of purity, we have been misinterpreted by the nazis many times,in truth many indians are descendants of the aryans of central the way people the largest english speaking population in the world is not the US or britain,it is india, there are over 350 million english speakers in if you feel like calling that "some" people then i wonder how much you mean by many-siddhant(india) 10 may 2005


I feel I must bring to light a problem which has been discussed previously but is still very much real. I am speaking of the apalling state of the In the news-section. Since April 29 (three days at current count), the top story on what really is one of the premier sources of information in the world has been about a rediscovered woodpecker! For three days! When I first saw I didn't really think it should even have been on the front page, it's really nothing more than a curiosity (I mean, except ornithologists, who really cares?) but I was thinking "ahh, why not, it'll be gone tomorrow". As it turns out it's still here and now I am getting annoyed. Now, what the argument that the admins usually answer such critisism with is "Add something then, we'll put it up". This is a valid argument, but only to a point because the main page is one of the very few pages (one could say the only page) for which the community isn't responsible, the admins are! If there's a problem, the admins have to fix it. And it's not working! Admins should not be responsible for content, they should be responsible for the community who is responsible for the content.

The fact is that no new news-stories have been suggested since April 29. Why is this? Is it because nothing have happend since then? No that's probably not true (of the top off my head, Cairo Bombings, May Day protests, Iraq insurgents, ...) Then it must be that us users don't bother about adding news suggestions. And can you blame us! The last suggested story (I'm reffering to BanyanTrees Vietnam-story), was like many other stories rejected, even though it is much more newsworthy than the woodpecker story. Which, by the way, was submitted directly by an admin bypassing the suggestion-page. This is simply not working. The absolute best solution would obviously be to unlock the page, but since this won't happen either we have to drop the ITN-section completly and refer to wikinews or we have to figure out a new system for doing this! The state of things is simply not acceptable! Personally, if the alternative is a section of this poor quality, I think it should be dropped. Replace it with POD or something, any section that is of any use to anyone. Gkhan 05:27, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

ITN does indeed seem to be a bit of a mess. I have no idea what value the state seal of N.Y. adds to a blurb on the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Nelson Ricardo 10:50, May 2, 2005 (UTC)
  • Feel free to replace it if you can find a better image. I added it so people had less to complain about that bird item being listed. Mgm|(talk) 12:38, May 2, 2005 (UTC)
      • I agree there needs to be some standard by which news items make it to the ITN section. The admin bypassing the suggestion page, while suggestions are offhandedly dismissed is an issue that can be corrected. I like the ITN section, and g\hope it sticks around, but there woodpecker story was left on too long. -- 02:02, 3 May 2005 (UTC) Sorry, didn't notice I wasn't logged in. --Firsfron 02:04, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[]
Since the original comment by Gkhan above, several of us have made sure the content of ITN has rotated. There is no rule to prevent an admin from putting material directly into ITN without having it on the suggestion page first; I've done that myself. In general, it's a good idea for one person to put something on the suggestions page, and another to promote it, just as a sanity check, but there's no need to make that binding.-gadfium 03:00, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[]
    • Sometimes the section uses flags as an image. They don't add much to it either. It's just that we need an image there. Mgm|(talk) 12:39, May 2, 2005 (UTC)
      • How about the image from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty article itself? If not, then a nuclear warhead might work. My point is simply that New York is unimportant to the piece. It could take place in Geneva, Tokyon or Kathmandu and the main focus would still be nuclear weapons. Nelson Ricardo 13:13, May 2, 2005 (UTC)
  • Really, that image needs to be changed. =\ Nelson Ricardo's suggestion sounds good. As to removing ITN, No! I think it's a good feature to have. --User:Jenmoa 16:21, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[]
  • I've changed the image as suggested. There's a very good reason why I didn't use it to begin with, though. It wasn't there when I checked the article earlier. Mgm|(talk) 16:30, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

ITN was locked because of vandalism, people uploading porn and the like. Would it be technically feasible to let anyone edit the template, but not include images? I guess not, at the moment, but that may be worth looking into: People could add stuff as it happens, and leave it to the admins to include images, belatedly. It's not acceptable to have goatse on the front page, but it's just as unacceptable to have ITN die because people can't be bothered to go through the 'candidates' stage. Maybe we need a new approach: Admins add anything, short of vandalism, that is put on the suggestions page, without checking if it meets the ITN criteria. After all, we locked it because of vandals, not because of poor quality of the submissions. dab () 17:06, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[]

I had an idea a while a go that involved a bot that continually updated any changes that had been on ITN for more than a ½ hour (ie. you have two templates, one which is unlocked one one which is locked, and the bot copied content that had been on the unlocked one for more than 30 mins to the locked one). The main objection was that vandals would learn how to "game" the bot into adding vandalism. What if we could do some version of this and the bot ignored all images and just copied the text (the image would be a separate template)? Gkhan 17:44, May 2, 2005 (UTC)
this sounds like a good idea, in principle. The system couldn't be 'gamed' if the bot didn't just update every 30min, but, say every minute, checked for stuff that remained untouched for >30min. The problem would be lag, as long as people keep fiddling with a topic, it would never be added (short of manually, by admins, again). dab () 18:52, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[]


Alot of people make fun of Albert Einstein and his hair and his nose But the truth is he was an amazing person so I love math and science (sometimes) we need to honor those who left something for us to learn about them.

people make fun of einstein? who's this? they should be shot. I agreed, he should be shot...

WEll of course, he was a genius. Without that man we woudnt be as far as we are today. Excelt for the oart about the bomb we coulda done without that, but he didnt actually make it so...well whatever

Mushroom cloud

Why is there a picture of a mushroom cloud on the main page? I know it is relevant, but a lot of people might see that picture under "news" and fear something pretty horrible -- I know I did. What about that three-circles hazard symbol instead? 17:01, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[]

good for you. You see, the warheads are still in place, so it's good to remember to worry, from time to time... dab () 17:21, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[]
  • Huh, I just changed the image on request. Can we agree on an image before changing it again? Mgm|(talk) 18:15, May 2, 2005 (UTC)
  • Is the three circles hazard symbol not for biohazards only? Perhaps you mean the trefoil? --ATG 18:59, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[]
  • I say we change it to a picture of the new president of Chile. The mushroom cloud is... kind of scary. Nickptar 22:51, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[]
  • I didn't know there's a discussion here. I put up the pic of José Miguel Insulza, the new guy at OAS from Chile a while ago. Hope it's okay. -- PFHLai 00:54, 2005 May 3 (UTC)


Who no interwikilinks to the startpage of the other languages ? --FlaBot 20:12, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[]

  • What's wrong with the current links? - Stoph 22:16, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[]
  • Who called them interwikilinks anyway, it's just about the hardest thing to spell on a keyboard.
  • Stoph: I think the FlaBot means the "in other languages" links in the left hand column.
  • I've also noticed that the number of languages in the "in other languages" column differs in other languages. 16:43, 10 May 2005 (UTC)


The article on the May 3rd constitution had a slew of small typos—not unusual, but shouldn't we comb through an article for errors such as these before posting it as the Article of the Day? And repeating "througout" on the main page itself is eye-catching, but not in the way you want it to be. --Italo Svevo 05:48, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[]


What other reason is there besides greed that communism never works.....i mean reading about it, it seems perfectly plausible that it could work without serious issues in a govt...FOR GODS SAKE Y?!!!

Greed is big, and I've also heard some stuff about how a non-market economy will inevitably collapse due to misinvestment (some sort of principle, don't remember the name though, but it was supposedly a major cause of the collapse of the Soviet Union). Nickptar 22:56, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[]

THanks ill look into that

Also competition. Competition is fundamentally opposed to a communist system, but the human condition seems to be pretty competitive. Having a bigger house and coveting your neighbor's ass are pretty inherent to all people. There are volumes written about why communism fails, but this is a simple answer. - Che Nuevara, the Democratic Revolutionary 03:44, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[]
having said that, it should be pointed out that communism has worked on a small scale. It seems that the concept is entirely feasible as long as peer pressure (your neighbor's opinion of you) works. Above village level, that sort of control breaks down. Hence -- does the "global village" bode new hope for the feasibility of communism? I don't know. dab () 18:49, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[]

U guys are awsome keepem coming (added by User:Chebol)

THanks. Please sign your comments, using ~~~~. Nickptar 23:27, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[]


at the moment i am reading self portrait the diarys of che guevara...and his nickname for quite a while was chebol. It says that che is a comman argentine form of adress which i get, but then it says bol means "shevik" i cant find out what that means..if anyone knows or has a source of knowing would you please tell me.

See bolshevik. Gdr 23:00, 2005 May 3 (UTC)

Awsome thanks

spectra can exist

Your dictionary said: Even in issues of nationalism, spectra can exist; for example, in the Quick Facts about: Basque Country Basque Country of Quick Facts about: Spain A parliamentary monarchy in southwestern Europe on the Iberian Peninsula; a former colonial powerSpain, Basque nationalists range from the EAJ/PNV, who have engaged in coalition governments with both : socialist PSOE and the conservative Partido Popular

ETA which engage in terror tactics and armed struggle against the Spanish national government, which they view as an occupying power.

I came upon this page by chance. I would like to mention that your information here is extremely unexact. EAJ-PNV never engaged in coalition with ETA. It happened with its political wing EH, only, and only under the condition of the finish of ETA (under a cease-fire at the moment). It happened that ETA broke the cease fire and resumed its armed activitity. In that moment EAJ-PNV broke the agreement with EH, the leftist radicals, so called political wing of ETA.

  • First off, thanks for pointing out the error. Nevertheless, you made one too. We're an encyclopedia, not a dictionary. In fact, you can change this yourself by clicking the "edit this page" link at the top of the article in question. Mgm|(talk) 19:09, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

JFK assassination

Does anyone have any theories for the JFK assassinationl I'm working on a final report and this is my topic of choice. Links to good sites would help too. Thanks to all who respond.

  • Well, there's the single bullet theory (Alan Specter cooked that one up), the theory that Castro did it because of the repeated attempts on his life by the CIA, the theory that the mob did it because of RFK's crackdown, the theory that LBJ did it because he wanted to be president, the theory that the Russians (because they're russian), and the theory that the aliens did it so they could replace him with LBJ who had already been replaced during his time in the Senate (this last one is a joke). →Raul654 20:32, May 4, 2005 (UTC)
  • you're doing the "final report" on the JFK assassinations? Be sure to let us know what happened! :P dab () 20:43, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[]

I don't think Oswald bought the gun he was supposed to kill Kennedy with. I worked for Klein's Sporting Goods, who sold the gun and scope by mail order. Six months after Oswald was killed we got another hand written order in the same handwriting as the original order for the same gun and scope and the same assumed name. We called the FBI, they picked up the order and that was the last we heard of it.

  • You can refer to the TV show "The X Files". In season 4(maybe), you can find the conspiracies of the two biggiest assassinations. JFK & MLK. The title of the episode is 'The Mussings of Cigarette Smoking Man'. I really like it. Good luck with your report and have a good one.


May 4th is also WWII remembrance day in the Netherlands. Watsonladd 21:52, May 4, 2005 (UTC)


I'm kind of new to wikipedia and don't know if it was already suggested, but while reading an article it would be nice to see what other articles link to it. Maybe it is already implemented but I'm sure i double-checked and didn't find anything.

In the Toolbox at the side of the page, the "What links here" item will do this. Example: Special:Whatlinkshere/Wikipedia. Oh, and welcome. Nickptar 23:29, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Minor Edits?

Umm... I just discovered Wiki a week ago and I love it! One problem I'm having: when I'm making a minor edit, how do I make the bold-faced "m" symbol appear?

Anonomyous users cannot make minor edits - you have to register an account. Once you do, you get the option to make a minor edit (it appears as a check box above "save page") . →Raul654 01:08, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

In the News, 2005-05-05

Sadly, due to the death of a candidate in Staffordshire South, that seat will not be contest at this time, therefore only 645 seats are being elected today. See Also The BBC News Article on the Election Starting --Neo 07:40, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

What links here: why does not include links from other languages?

"What links here" is a great tool but it does not show links from other languages. Wikipedia is full of multilanguage articles that are linked A=>B but not B=>A. Currently the editor of B cannot fix his page because he/she has no way of knowing about the existance of A (or 15 of them). Should be no rocket science to add it, I guess. Warbola 18:07, 5 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Interwiki links are mostly set up manually, and yes, you are correct, many are being missed. Some users also set up bots to fix these in bulk. As for the links that show up in "What links here", that's a completely different animal. Technically, the projects in different languages are separate entities(they are contained in separate databases). The only thing joining these projects together are interwikies. While you can certainly link to an article in a Wikipedia in a different language, such practice is usually not welcome, hence, there is no practical reason to have such links show up in "What links here". Hope this answers your question.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 18:48, May 5, 2005 (UTC)
  • It's simple. That's not what "What links here" was made for. It's already limited to a certain number of links and if all interwikis to the English pedia were included there, it would push out all the internal links. There's people working on improving interwiki linking by completing the links shown to the left of an article, but with an ever growing number of articles this may take some time as everything else here does. You can help though, there's a tool that searches different wikipedias for articles by the same name (perfect to link people, places and such things) and as Ezhiki said, there's people with automated bots working on it too. Mgm|(talk) 21:02, May 5, 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your comments. I just wanted to say that having any opportunity to trace the interwiki mess for a given article would be very useful and "what links here" is one way to do it without changing the existing user interface. Yes, "what links here" is a "completely different animal" than interwiki for database developers but IMHO not at all for the endusers. Clicking links inside an article is very similar to clicking links in "other languages" section and there is nothing illogical in seeing them both in reverse. Warbola 22:13, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[]

i'm new what exactly is quantam gravity and mechanics?

This page is for discussion of the Main Page only. Try Wikipedia: Reference Desk--Fangz 22:01, 5 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Wikipedia link in 'Welcome to Wikipedia' doesn't go anywhere

I don't know if it's due to the recent db lock but when you click 'Wikipedia' in 'Welcome to Wikipedia' on the Main Page it says there's no such article... Dan100 04:05, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

  • It looks fine to me now. It was probably some sort of vandalism you looked at. Mgm|(talk) 09:12, May 6, 2005 (UTC)
  • That was my fault - I was trying to delete a redirect left over from page move vandalism, but someone beat me to moving it back to its proper title, and due to the subsequent server slowness, I couldn't manage to restore it right away. — Dan | Talk 11:56, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Main page uses lots of Longdescs that aren't long descriptions

Longdesc is designed to let those of us using non-visual browsers have a way to read a description of images, but the main page is full of longdesc tags that point to .png files. I don't know what a .png file is, but it sure isn't a text description of a picture. It's frustrating for those of us using screen readers. Weichbrodt 12:25, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

PNG is just a image file format and not a descriptor file. So it would seem that your screen reader is trying to access the image file as if it were a descriptor. Interesting bug... but I can't say whether the problem is with your screen reader or with wikipedia. Try see what happens when I access a different website with png images. Seabhcán 12:49, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Well, here's an example of image markup from the main page: <img src="" alt="WIKIPEDIA" longdesc="/wiki/Image:Wikipedia-word.png" />

This references two .png images, one in the "src" parameter and one in the "longdesc" parameter. If the image associated with the longdesc is a picture of text, then that's a problem. Text-based browsing schemes need honest-to-goodness text, not a picture of it. I can't see what the second image is intended to do in this case. Weichbrodt 17:56, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

The reference to "/wiki/Image:Wikipedia-word.png" is NOT pointing to a .png, but rather to Wikipedia's Image description page for that picture. If your program is relying on '.png' in a URL meaning something's a PNG, rather than relying on Content-type: headers as it should, that's a problem. —Morven 18:35, May 6, 2005 (UTC)
That's probably it. Extensions doesn't amtter in an url. A ".png" can be a html page, which it is in this case. Jeltz talk 18:47, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[]
That's not an HTML page. Try viewing the page source. There isn't one. Nelson Ricardo 21:13, May 6, 2005 (UTC)
Just wondering -- is there an example from a more standard wiki page? (Original post says "lots"). That example is from the front page at, which is not edited in the standard way, and it would not be surprising to find that it is exceptional. When I look at pictures in articles, for example, the "description" parameter points to the image description page, as Morven stated. --22:28, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
I think you've got it. The homepage is edited on meta and then copied to www - I believe as the generated HTML, not as Wiki source. On meta, those longdesc links work correctly: is a valid image description page on meta. The problem is that it's a relative URL, and when the page is copied to, the links to the image descriptions no longer work. —Morven 23:03, May 6, 2005 (UTC)
I see the html source for the longdesc page [1] but unfortunatly it is as Morven says: there is no description there is just an empty wikipedia page with no description on it. The real description is on meta. Jeltz talk 10:05, 8 May 2005 (UTC)[]

"duel" ?

Under the "Did you know?" "duel" is a good article, can we link to it? Thanx 19:49, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Duel is indeed a fine article, much because it has been around for awhile (since December 2002 if I'm reading the history correct). Did you know, or DYK, is only for new articles. You are, ofcourse, encouraged to add suggestions for DYK here. Gkhan 20:46, May 6, 2005 (UTC)
Nonono, I mean, under DYK now there's something about 2 dudes duelling. Can we link make duel a link there? Thanx 21:25, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[]
Ahh, I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Gkhan 22:10, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

"Did you know?" uses wrong word

The word used in the "Did you know?" section is "principals" when it should be "principles". The former refers to leading things, the latter to ideas. LeoO3 20:23, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Vaoverland has dealt with it. Mgm|(talk) 16:17, May 7, 2005 (UTC)


If one part of the brain is usually responsible for aggressive behaviour, what options might this suggest for controlling the behaviour of someone who is particularly aggressive?

Tony Blair and "unprecedented third term"

Didn't Maragaret Thatcher get elected to three terms? According to the wikipedia page for her, she won the 1979, 1983, and 1987 general elections--three by my count. Thanks.

I suppose it is unprecedented in the fact that Tony Blair is the first Labour PM to be elected for three consecutive terms, although I agree that the wording is very ambiguous. Rje 01:06, May 7, 2005 (UTC)


Unless the Brits have a secret space shuttle program, it's Endeavor. --Mothperson 15:54, 7 May 2005 (UTC)[]

From the article: "The orbiter is named after the HM Bark Endeavour, the ship commanded by 18th century explorer James Cook (which explains the British spelling); the name also honoured Endeavor, the Command Module of Apollo 15." Good enough explanation for me. Mgm|(talk) 16:16, May 7, 2005 (UTC)

Links to international Wikipedias

Why do you don't integrate a link-block containing all wikipedia-mainpages in all the different languages on the left part of the page below "toolbox", in order to have a quicker link to Wikipedia-worldwide? It could make research more easy and could show the cultural wealth of wikipedia directly on the main page. --Dorjedrak 10:15, 8 May 2005 (UTC)[]

  • My guess would be that it's not done because that would make it a very long list. We've included it in the main page text so we can put more than one language on a line and spare space. Mgm|(talk) 17:01, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
  • I seem to remember that they were put into a list very briefly, only for a few hours, but it played havoc with some of the skins so it was changed back. Rje 23:59, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

It would be nice to install it again, because it's common use in Wikipedia throughout the world. What is possible there, should be no great deal on the english page!? ;-) --Dorjedrak 16:54, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[]


hello..I am a first year student at Heriot-Watt university (Scotland). I didn't know about wikipedia before, and ever since my lecturer mentioned it I find it very useful.. Thanks to all who make it possible! Joseline



What does it do? -MarSch 17:02, 8 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Wikipedia featured in L.A. Times in the Fox Trot cartoon!

Wikipedia was recently featured in the Los Angeles Times newspaper in the Fox Trot cartoon by Bill Amend! (the image) JarlaxleArtemis 17:12, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

It's been added to Wikipedia:Press coverage#May too. — Knowledge Seeker 17:48, 8 May 2005 (UTC)[]
I had the urge to copy-paste-&-edit and add a 5th panel with the two cartoon characters exclaiming, " Wow ! Those Admins work really fast ! " But that might be a copyvio, so I had to stop myself. :-) -- PFHLai 19:24, 2005 May 8 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be censored? It's promoting vandalism!!!! --Cool Cat My Talk 03:08, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[]
"Totally cool... It's the greatest thing" - A ringing endorsement from the smart kid, Jason, I think his name is. Nice!
 Spalding 03:23, May 9, 2005 (UTC)


I don't think the description under "In the News" of the al-Libbi arrest accurately depicts the situation described in the 8 May Sunday Times article (where the "mistaken identity" characterization comes from). I am, however, not bold enough to edit the Main Page. I have just reworked the al-Libbi article, maybe someone can look at that and adjust the main page item.
Thank ye --Cam 23:58, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

I've tweaked the item on ITN a bit. Hope it's good enough. Thanks for pointing that out. -- PFHLai 15:39, 2005 May 9 (UTC)

"Stand down" vs. "Step down."

When I hear "stand down," I think of gunmen agreeing to hand over their hostages and turning themselves in. I think "step down" would be more appropriate for what Michael Howard is planning on doing, no?

Have you seen his policy on immigration? Filiocht | Blarneyman 09:08, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
The Michael Howard page also uses the words "stand down". Is this British English ? Is this his choice of words in interviews and hence so reported ? -- PFHLai 14:56, 2005 May 9 (UTC)
Yes, this is British English; the Cambridge dictionary defines it as "to give up your official job or position". Filiocht | Blarneyman 15:04, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for confirming that. The gunman User: refered to above was probably a cowboy speaking American English. -- PFHLai 15:45, 2005 May 9 (UTC)

In The News article submission: John Conyers...

and 88 members of Congress write an open letter to the White House about the current memo leaked which apparently reveals the secret U.S/U.K. agreement to attack Iraq in 2002. link here: and elsewhere. --Firsfron 11:29, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[]

Please indicate which page(s) in Wikipedia is updated. Wikipedia is not a news service. At ITN, we only feature pages that are nicely updated with news stories. -- PFHLai 14:48, 2005 May 9 (UTC)


How exactly do you choose the article of the day? 17:34, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[]

All AoDs are featured articles (meaning they're of high quality, having been extensively worked on and reviewed). From that list, one article a day is scheduled (use the calendar at Wikipedia:Tomorrow's featured article to see what's coming). Generally the article has nothing to do with the specific day - usually they aren't anniversaries or national-days or birthdays or anything like that, and sometimes things that are already in the news (like the recent UK election) cause related AoDs to be deferred until later. That way we don't get a front page that's all politics, all tech, all disaster, etc. -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 17:41, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[]
People find articles they like, nominate them on wikipedia:featured article candidates. After a few days (usually 5), if I think there's consensus, I promote them and list them on wikipedia:featured articles. At some point thereafter, I pick them and schedule them for the main page. →Raul654 18:51, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

Football headlines

Should not European football headlines be considered for the In the News section? With many seasons ending, several teams in big leagues have been decided as champions, such as FC Bayern Muenchen in Germany and Chelsea FC in England. More and more teams are being crowned, and I think it will be good to have some sports news rather than all politics.

The trouble is that the news section is really aimed at featuring Wikipedia articles on current events, not at providing a general news service, so football headlines are generally less suitable than politics or technology stories, since these events are more likely to have articles written on them. — Trilobite (Talk) 21:45, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[]
If there is a good wikipage on the team that gets crowned as the European champion, along with a good wikipage on the championship, it should be okay. I think the North American football and baseball fans have done a solid job so far. See Super Bowl, Super Bowl XXXIX & New England Patriots for American football, and World Series, 2004 World Series & Boston Red Sox for baseball, for examples. Mind you, sports news, generally speaking, should not be the top news item on ITN, imho. -- PFHLai 03:21, 2005 May 10 (UTC)
P.S. Please post suggestions for ITN at Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates. Thanks. -- PFHLai 03:29, 2005 May 10 (UTC)

Grammatical Error on the Main Page

"She became famous in these two countries and well-known worldwide after writing a letter to the Soviet Communist Party General Secretary Yuri Andropov during the Cold War and receiving a reply from Andropov which included a personal invitation to visit the Soviet Union, which Smith accepted."

Should read:

"She became famous in these two countries and well-known worldwide after writing a letter to the Soviet Communist Party General Secretary Yuri Andropov during the Cold War and receiving a reply from Andropov that included a personal invitation to visit the Soviet Union, which Smith accepted."

Please fix immediately.


Can't have too many which'es in the same sentences, eh ? I've fixed it. -- PFHLai 07:37, 2005 May 10 (UTC)